Curse

Winstar · Nov 02, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I like the new maps. They actually promote some interesting diversity instead constant elimination.

word · Nov 02, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

/agree

The fact still stands that you only have about 1/4 chance to draw an HB map. 4v4 human players in HB maps is WAY different from HB matches. 4v4 human players will net many more kills and faster (more offensive builds). Most of the games I played ended before 5:00 mark. In HB, most matches get to close to 0:00 unless I completely dominate them, and they resign.

Also, I can see reason for your complaining, but I think it's somewhat lame. Because of the fact that it's only 1/4 chance, and that most average TA players have crappy tactics, this is your chance rank 5+ glads to completely roll people on HB maps (in addition to annihilation maps). When you say, screw all the running, is it because your lazy? or is it because you don't want to think about tactics? As far as I can remember, Guild Wars is as much about tactics and player positioning as player skill. It's about time they innovated TA with what they have already had in GvG, HA, and HB. Now TA is slowly beginning to rise up in ranks and may finally get its much deserved recognition.

Hah, so yea, you'll dominate 1/4 of the maps, but what about the other 3/4? I don't think 4 monks are good in 4v4 annihilation maps...

------------------------------

The con of it all: Because TA will promote better players now with HB maps which require additional tactics/communication, it may discourage newer players from playing TA more than a couple matches. (This occurs more heavily in GvG, HA [rank discrim], and amazingly, it hasn't occured as much in HB, but is still there)

oh hush! youre happy with the changes cause rawr fails in ta

moko · Nov 02, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

AFAIK, all the "good" players you must be referring to are certainly good at GvG, but from experience, most GvG players are either really bad at TA, or they just don't take it seriously enough to win games.

i think Sab is just referring to well known TA players and not the kind you are thinking off -- and those opinions should matter more, no? cause you know, they actually do play TA and stuff?

i think the time limit definately needs to be halved at least, or the map size should be halved and 2 shrines being removed, only making the center shrine giving ONE morale and the other 2 giving GOOD boosts (not trash like additional energy). battly cry and health shrine are both good options to have, they give a good advantage at the mainfight (which would give main points to the counter).

the main problem is that this, which isn't a bad thing, will increase the tactical knowledge needed to win a couple of games, but on the other hand build diversity will go down even more. sure, it will completely kill certain gimmicks (not a bad thing) and will prevent many others from coming back to TA, but lets face it, i enjoyed beating scrubs and their lame stuff. and really bad players using balanced will be...boring. TA just lacks the character slot to make it a really good system.

basically, i wouldn't mind a team costume brawl that gives gladpoints also (so that nobody can complain) and leave normal TA to annihilation.

also shrines totally screw RA. Oo

Vulkanyaz · Nov 02, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

I don't mind it in TA where the team will actually have some sort of co-ordination, but in RA!?!?!? WHAT THE F**K WERE YOU THINKING ANET?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Sab · Nov 02, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

Maybe you run a balanced build that can play well 4v4 and split, kind of like what people do in gvg? Tbh there isn't that much "viable" stuff in TA it's just that no one actually takes it serious enough for it to matter, the quality of play was so low that you could win with just about anything.

I seriously doubt spirit spam is going to be very popular, people would rather tie than lose to spirit spam so if you really can't beat it you can just run around until the match times out. In addition to that it's going to win super slow and people want glad points fast.

Discussion is on irc/vent, I'd say you probably don't speak to good players because you're bad and don't know any.

Everybody complaining in this thread is bad, I haven't seen anyone good complain yet since no one has played it enough to say with any certainty it is bad.

I still don't see why a splittable 4v4 build is superior to a synergistic 4v4 build. Most of the builds currently in use can be modded for solo play by slotting in self heals, block stances, run buffs and the like. However, in doing so, you lose a lot of utility you need to beat gimmicks. I can't see how that's good for TA, considering some of the stronger overload gimmicks still work.

The reason I brought up spirit spam is that I had several 20-30 consec runs with it just as fast or faster than any other build. I probably faced these "good players" you keep mentioning, several times in these runs. Perhaps you can ask them how well this degenerate build works in the new format.

And no, I don't keep in touch with the "good players" from the GvG community, I keep in touch with the "good players" in the TA community. The ones who play TA daily and know what they're talking about when it comes to TA. With that said, I don't know why the devs listen to GvGers when it comes to TA. Makes about the same amount of sense if it were the other way around.

Ankkasika · Nov 02, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

There are 4 (or 6, I don't yet know if they added the costume brawl maps) HB maps and 10 regular TA maps. That's the thing keeping people from taking a running-dedicated build, so I wouldn't worry about the HB maps being abused. They're only freshening the TA experience IMHO.

I'd be a lot more worried of what happens if the maps stay in RA...

glountz · Nov 02, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Also, I can see reason for your complaining, but I think it's somewhat lame. Because of the fact that it's only 1/4 chance, and that most average TA players have crappy tactics, this is your chance rank 5+ glads to completely roll people on HB maps (in addition to annihilation maps). When you say, screw all the running, is it because your lazy? or is it because you don't want to think about tactics? As far as I can remember, Guild Wars is as much about tactics and player positioning as player skill. It's about time they innovated TA with what they have already had in GvG, HA, and HB. Now TA is slowly beginning to rise up in ranks and may finally get its much deserved recognition.

Just stay in HB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaga

Discussion is on irc/vent, I'd say you probably don't speak to good players because you're bad and don't know any.

Everybody complaining in this thread is bad, I haven't seen anyone good complain yet since no one has played it enough to say with any certainty it is bad.

Just stay in GvG. If you don't see why this is screwing TA, worst, why it's unplayable in RA (how do you communicate uh? Is there somewhere a secret Voice device Anet implemented I didn't see?), you can't be helped.

If you don't understand, just imagine bringing HBlike maps in GvG, where kill counts and capping will be the key to victory. First having 100 points win, Yay? You will agree, amirite? It will promote skill and better builds, amirite?

BlackSephir · Nov 02, 2007, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Why the hell does AN keep making changes that nobody asks for? Searing Flames buffed, HB maps in TA/RA- the hell?

the_deSKtructor · Nov 02, 2007, 02:43 PM // 14:43

U just have 32 skills to deal with the usual gimmicks, and now u have to fit in the build also sth for those new maps. I think it will be quite hard to have them all.
@ BlackSephir
I think they did this cause ppl wanted costume brawl to remain. But imo, it isn't the shrine capping thing that made costume brawl fun, but the sealed deck system.

FC_DriFteR · Nov 02, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Most people in this thread seem to identify the two main problems with this as too long for reward and less variety. I agree with both of these points

. getting 20 wins before took an incredible amount of time because of these maps as we weren't using voip and none of my pug had much exp in hero battles.

The average TA match takes around 3-4 mins so my suggestion is make these maps worth two wins. If this stays around i can see /roll? becoming more common for two teams on low win counts.

Also this will make sync entering even more powerful in RA.

As for variety i can see telleporting skills finding a place into teams and more self sufficient characters. Oh wait! thats the hero battle meta

. If this stays not only will capture maps increase the time taken to get points, the old maps will take longer as there will be more defense in many teams.

I've probably repeated many posters here......revert please

BlackSephir · Nov 02, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

I think they did this cause ppl wanted costume brawl to remain. But imo, it isn't the shrine capping thing that made costume brawl fun, but the sealed deck system.

Yah, well, that's right.

Divineshadows · Nov 02, 2007, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Why the hell does AN keep making changes that nobody asks for?

People were asking for new maps in TA, but A-net in its typical fashion half assed it. Rather than design new maps from scratch, they scoop up piles of dog excriment from HB and serve it up fresh in TA.

word · Nov 02, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

People were asking for new maps in TA, but A-net in its typical fashion half assed it. Rather than design new maps from scratch, they scoop up piles of dog excriment from HB and serve it up fresh in TA.

word. correct.

BlackSephir · Nov 02, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Well, 'adding NEW maps to TA' and 'adding old HB maps to TA' isn't exactly the same in my book either.

yesitsrob · Nov 02, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

TA needs something adding to it, I'd argue that HB maps are not what it needs but it was an absolutely terrible format before. I don't doubt it still is, but at least now running nothing but a 4v4 head on build won't win you everything and I think that will make things a bit more interesting.

It has potential to be a very good arena, but like everything in the game won't be.

hartl · Nov 02, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Would anyone mind to give reason except "omg wtf j00 cant combine TA with HB, its evil"?

Is using your brain every 4th Match really that painful?

glountz · Nov 02, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

TA needs something adding to it, I'd argue that HB maps are not what it needs but it was an absolutely terrible format before. I don't doubt it still is, but at least now running nothing but a 4v4 head on build won't win you everything and I think that will make things a bit more interesting.

It has potential to be a very good arena, but like everything in the game won't be.

TA only needed a ladder and an obs mode. But ANet prefered to give ladder to challenge missions and HB.

I'm sure challenge missions are the top of the top of PvP, right.

wren e · Nov 02, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Personally, I think that it is a mistake to add these maps to RA, without some sort of effective communication this is just bad. In TA though, the matches do take longer to finish on these maps and I would suggest changing the points needed to win from 20 to 10, to promote quicker matches and to keep it on par with the length of time that other maps take. Honestly though, with a few minor changes I can see that these map additions can be a positive thing for TA.

Mister Sparco · Nov 02, 2007, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by subNinja

This sucks hard. TA was awesome. It was a chance to just go one on one as a team and see who the better fighters were. Now we get to waste 10 minutes running around capping shrines and killing NPCs. Pve'rs already have hero battles, I really hope they don't start getting to infest TA.

i do agree they should keep HB shrines in HB...
if its jsut the maps without the shrines on TA there is no problem.

but ur saying bullshit,
- "Pve'rs play HB.."
first of all: they dont got the insight to know what to cap where to run who to attack etc.
2nd of all: they are Pve'rs zo they wont be pvping
3rd: they dont got perfect weapons,armor,skills,runes for all their heroes...
so if they would play it.. they would use pvp chars...

- "It was a chance to just go one on one as a team and see who the better fighters were."

isn't that the same in HB?
team vs team, the best wins.

- "Now we get to waste 10 minutes running around capping shrines and killing NPCs."

which NPC's do you kill then in TA with HB maps?
they only NPC that u can kill there are mercenarys (1 per map).
the priest map in TA.. that's also an NPC u dont whiine about that.

pls use real arguments why this HB map shit is shit and dont make them up.

and dont disrepect the HBers, most of em know alot more about pvp then all those RA/TAers.

the meta in HB sux atm with all those recalls and shit...
I dont know if the shrines are included in TA now but if it is A-Net is just testing what would happen to the HB meta when u let real players play instead of heroes.
they just trying to find a way to solve the gay meta of HB..

so dont whine.. its probably only just for 1 week.
though it would be shit if this stays with the shrines in TA..
cause then they just have to make a new arena..
1 arena: team arenas
the other one: team hero battles

Pyro maniac · Nov 02, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

the idea wasn't bad: add other maps in TA, so you need more tactics and a more versatile build.
Only problem: it plain sucks.

Personally some changes that make it interesting:
- lower points to 15
- add DP
- longer ressurection at shrine
- team is wiped when:
* all = 60 DP
* all dead at same time (during the 15-20 sec res)

(just a brainstorm)